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Backwards Compatibility on PS3 Wrap Up

PS3 + Joystiq + Kotaku + Comments + Blog + PS3 Fanboy
10.08.2007 at 8:47 pm

If you haven’t read the news the new 40gb PS3 sku has had the backwards compatibility completely removed from it. This has, of course, set off a good amount of blogging and commenting. Here is a wrap up from the last few days.

On October 5th at 2:00PM PS3 Fanboy’s Chris Powell posted:

“Now that Sony has finally come clean and announced its new 40GB PlayStation 3, it’s got some “splaining to do.” The biggest issue on most gamer’s minds is why Sony decided to cut the backwards compatibility feature that linked the PS3 with the PlayStation consoles that came before it.

SCEE managing director Ray Maguire said Sony will use the money it dedicated towards backwards compatibility to invest in new games or to perhaps lower prices so more gamers can afford to buy a PS3. “It was a big decision, and we know it is a very emotive subject as lots of people think that backwards compatibility is high on the agenda and yet few really use it,” he said.

We’re not sure how Maguire came to this conclusion, but the PS3’s backwards compatibility feature is always one that we’ve appreciated for a long time. With Sony’s commitment to a 10-year life span of its hardware and games still being published for last generation’s console, it seems like an odd choice to “cut the cord” at this point.”

Selected Comments from the post

“If you really want to have BC fork out a 100 euro more and you have it. As well as an extra controller and 2 games. Better deal than the 400 euro consoel if you ask me. Spin it all you like but the fact remains the PS3 just dropped 200 euros in price from 600 to 400 euros.”

“”…that backwards compatibility is high on the agenda and yet few really use it,”

Is this guy for real?! What other games beside Heavenly Sword, Resistance and Warhawk are out here that gamers play on their PS3? I dare you to name one.
This, by far, is the absolute worst explanation I’ve heard this year from any executive. I’m speechless”

“I think it’s a load of crap too. Seems like they’re just punishing the consumer for not buying the more expensive version. Kind of like how Intel apparently used to sell the same processor, but underclocked to different speeds at different prices - it costs the same for them regardless.

But I also think people make too big of a deal out of backwards compatibility. I mean, I love games, but how many games for the PS2 have you played (for however many YEARS at this point) that you STILL feel the need to play? I would definitely buy a non-BC PS3 if it’d save me money.”

“man who cares if it isnt b/c? KEEP UR OLD PS2 MINE WORKS FINE AFTER 4 YEARS… i don’t mind there’s no bc in this new 40gig model and others shouldn’t care either. i even have my original ps hooked up even though i don’t play it. so who gives a crap if there’s no b/c?! sheesh… lmao :)”

“I’m really glad I bought my PS3 when I did. Backwards compatibility is what I use my PS3 for the most. I own several PS3 titles, but I have a huge library of PS2 games and a bunch of PS games that I still play, alot. I retired my PS2 when I bought my PS3 last January. The only exception was Guitar Hero, but I finally got an adapter that works and I gave my PS2 to our niece and nephew.

I don’t want to have a bunch of consoles hooked up if I don’t have to. Sony said pre-launch that the PS3 would be fully backwards compatible. But it seems only if you bought the it early when it had a higher price tag.”

On October 5th at 4:55PM Joystiq’s Alexander Sliwinski posted:

“In separate interviews today both Sony UK boss Ray Maguire and Sony Europe spokesman Nick Sharples spoke about how the 40GB PS3 lacking backwards compatibility is fine. How is it fine? Maguire tells Eurogamer that by this Christmas the PS3 will have a whopping 65 games and so they feel “there’s sufficient choice in the marketplace and that we’re still better off using that money that we’d put into backwards compatibility in either investing in new games or using that money to help support bringing the price down.” Meanwhile, Sharples tells GameDaily, “We have made clear on many occasions that our priority is on developing innovative new features and services for PS3 and not on backwards compatibility.”

We really hate to do this, but we swear Sony must honestly think consumers and the press have the memories of goldfish. Let’s just take it back to the PlayStation brand for two seconds. Sony’s own Phil Harrison clearly and distinctly said in a 2006 interview with GamePro, “Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices — PSOne, PS2, and now PS3.” A little over a year and “core values” go right out the window. Who needs backwards compatibility anyway when you’ve got 65 games to sell?”

Selected Comments from the post

“Ken Kutaragi:
“the PS3 will feature backwards compatibility with PS and PS2 games from day one. I’m emphasizing this because, from what I hear, there are some platforms that haven’t been able to completely do this. It’s costly in terms of hardware, but we’d rather invest firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on.”

Kinda hard to weasel out now?”

“Did Nintendo ever say that the SNES, N64 and GC would be backwards compatible with anything?NEVER.Did Microsoft say that backwards compatibility was a primary concern, and a core value for the brand?NEVER.

Did Sony say that BC was a primary concern, and a core value for the brand? YES.”

“sony themselves said they would be 100% backwards compatible. they set the standard for themselves, and now they’re breaking that promise a year later”

“Sony should have just kept their mouths shut after announcing this detriment to their brand value. To make things worse, they put out a figure of “65 games” for people to buy for the PS3. 65 PS3 games available isn’t something to be proud of, especially with a back-library of thousands of PS and PS2 games that they just made UNavailable to the system.

Sure, they found a way to drive their cost down. But it’s at the cost of their consumer’s understanding of the PS3. Multiple SKUs is bad enough (lookin at MS too!) to confuse the customers. But when you take away a /strength/ of, not only a product, but a whole brand, you’re just asking for a world of hurt.”

“Maybe the people are upset because you Sony, told that the PS3 will be %100 backward compatible from day one, bashing the 360.”

“People wanted a lower price. Sony is doing things according to what the consumers were demanding. When they made their original statement they thought that people would see what a good deal the PS3 is since it comes with a blu-ray drive, full b/c, free online etc…..BUT not everyone saw that. Sony had to change their strategy. That is exactly what is going on….because you guys obviously didn’t appreciate what they ever doing before.”

On October 5th at 7:20PM Kotaku’s Michael Mcwhertor posted:

“By now, we’re all aware of the price drop and feature drop of the PLAYSTATION 3 in Europe, resulting in a gimped 40GB model of the console. So why, exactly, was backwards compatibility dropped from the PS3? What was once a “core value” and “necessary” according to Sony Computer Entertainment’s Phil Harrison—not to mention a boastful talking point when asked about the Xbox 360’s BC— is now clearly not at all necessary, with the company’s priorities on “developing innovative new features and services for PS3 and not on backwards compatibility.”

Yeah, we get it. There’s an opportunity to save a couple bucks. But why remove the PlayStation 2 chipset altogether, after investing in software emulation and eliminating hundreds of titles from the PS3 library? According to an interview with SCEE reps at GamesIndustry BIZ a “reduced emphasis placed on this feature amongst later purchasers of PS3, as well as the availability of a more extensive line-up of PS3 specific titles” is the reason the company is nixing the once promised support.

Plus, they’ve got 65 PS3 titles ready for the holidays.

Solution? Buy the 60GB (while they’re still available), natch. This is the one time as an early hardware adopter that I don’t feel screwed over. Off to hug my Emotion Engine!”

Selected Comments from the post

“So in other words, they needed PS2 support to get the PS3 ball rolling, and now that they actually have games out they are removing it to make PS3s cheaper for everyone else? Actually, that sounds reasonable.”

“I for one don’t care about BC, I have a PS2 which I used to play my PS2 games (funnily enough) now I just want a PS3 I can afford.”

“If by reasonable you mean screwing over anyone that buys that then yes, it’s reasonable. Personally, if and when I do get a PS3 I would really rather not have to have my PS2 crammed in my already overcrowded entertainments center as well. This is pretty much just a giant slap in the face by Sony. Thanks guys.”

“I have to agree, Sony is certainly being two-faced about BC. I mean all the stuff they about how MS couldn’t have all the titles, blah blah blah. Look where they’re at now. Sad, Sony, very SAD.”

“Who cares? If you want the backward compatibility, go get the slightly more expensive unit. If you don’t care and want to save a C-note, go get the cheaper version.”

“I haven’t been interested in the PS3 at all until I saw some footage from MGS4 and I realized how much I really want it. Iv been getting increasingly interested in buying one. I currently own a regular PS2 so I could look past the backwards computability being dropped. I might actually end up picking up a PS3 this winter.”

“Normally, I’d piss and moan about this whole thing with the best of them, but this is the one time someone has removed a feature from their product and I really… don’t give a shit.
Call me a Never-Nervous-Pervis, but it seems to me that if you want Backwards Compatibility, you’ll still have that option. For those of us who are more frugal, and care not for the luxuries of playing the games of generations past, then there’ s a PlayStation 3 tailor-made for you. It’s got all the high-tech niceties of it’s high-end counterpart (Bluetooth, Blu-Ray, WiFi, expandable HDD) without a feature that I would argue 20% of its owners use. Dumbass move by Sony? Maybe. The best move they’ve made so far? That’s where my money is.”

On October 6th at 2:55PM Joystiq’s Ross Miller posted:

“Due to popular demand from a previous editorial (this is a blog, after all, and editorializing does happen from time to time), we thought it best to clarify further why, exactly, we feel Sony’s move to drop backwards compatibility from the 40GB PAL model was at best misguided and at worst cruel to its consumer base.

First off, the cost to Sony for including the software emulation is very minimal. Though some people have cited the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer, the combo chip was removed from the PAL design in late February 2007 and cost an estimated $27. Essentially, the software emulation has been running entirely on PS3 hardware for the full extent of its tenure in the PAL region. So that $27 that Sony is presumably saving by not using software backwards compatibility is misinformed.

Regarding PS One titles, Sony has told GameSpot that they will be compatible, which is a good sign. But why not extend those compatibility options to the PS2 library? As previously denoted, that software in its present form runs fine on PS3 hardware.

There has also been discussion about choice. For this, we want to remind the readers that the 40GB is currently only coming out in Europe, where their only other option is the soon-to-be-dropped (reaffirmed in a line from their recent press release) 60GB version. The 80GB model is not coming to PAL territories.

But perhaps it is a cost-cutting hardware issue that no one has seen. If that’s the case, then Sony would be wise to say so, instead of highlighting the 65 PS3 titles reportedly able to justify the loss or downplaying the importance of backwards compatibility when, as recently as 2006 Sony’s Phil Harrison said that “backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices — PSOne, PS2 and now PS3.”

Could the software be offered later as a download? That’s a possibility, although it would beg the question why the company couldn’t have added it originally (barring issues over the non-presence of the PS2 graphics synthesizer chip), as well as if that compatibility software would be provided for a nominal fee.

As it stands, no hardware deterrent has been revealed, and the public relations are doing nothing to remedy that error. Does adding the software during the production of the unit, particularly when other software like the operating system is being uploaded, cost that much more? We don’t see it, and we’re grasping at straws trying to find a reason for it. (Other than diverting PAL gamers’ money from buying last-gen software to new-gen offerings.)

So what’s the big deal - why does the backwards compatibility matter? The previously-mentioned “core value” quote from Phil Harrison best sums it up, that with the PS3 we are buying into the PlayStation brand and all that it entails. Gamers who pick up the 40GB model have lost access to over 8,000 titles - many of them the best gaming has to offer. The elephant in the room is that Sony could ween out backwards compatibility from all its available models over all regions. Should you care? We think so.

Update: With some help from Engadget Japan’s Ittousai, we have found diagrams indicating the switch from Emotion Engine + Graphic Synthesizer chip to just a graphics synthesizer chip, implying the software emulation was partially hardware-supported (as noted by many commenters). If that’s the case, then, the ability to download emulation software later may not be possible. We don’t want to spread misinformation, so for further clarification we have contacted Sony for a definitive answer.

Regardless, the loss of backwards compatibility marks a paradigm shift in the PlayStation branding. If you buy a PS3, your connection to the previous generation - one that saw Sony reign mightily in the realm of console gaming - is severed. Does the cost of branding outweigh the financial benefit of losing a graphics chip?”

On October 8th at 4:30PM PS3 Fanboy’s Andrew Yoon posted:

“Many people assumed that the PS3 was software emulating PS2 games, ever since the release of the 80GB model. That system removed the Emotion Engine from the hardware, and required Sony to implement a backwards compatibility solution that involved emulation. Many, including Joystiq, wondered why the new 40GB model couldn’t do the same.

SCEE’s Nick Sharples sent a technical explanation as to why the new 40GB model loses support for PS2 games. “Backwards compatibility for PS2 titles is largely made possible through the use of actual semiconductors, supported by the PS3 system software. The 20GB and 60GB PS3 models launched in Japan and the USA were equipped with both the PS2 Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesiser chips and we could therefore guarantee over 90% backwards compatibility for PS2 titles.

“The 60GB model launched in Europe was a new model (shared with the 80GB model launched subsequently in USA) which contains only a modified version of the Graphics Synthesiser chip from the PS2 and not the Emotion Engine chip. The European launch model therefore used a combination of software and the modified version of the PS2 Graphics Synthesiser chip to deliver backwards compatibility for PS2 titles. As a result the percentage of backwards compatible PS2 titles was slightly reduced.

“The 40GB model, to be launched in Europe on 10th October, is a new model and is not equipped with any of the semi conductors from the PS2, and backwards compatibility would therefore have to be achieved by software emulation alone.” Because each game would have to be individually emulated (much like on the Xbox 360), Sony decided that an effort like that would be much too costly, and opted to remove BC support from the 40GB system entirely. That decision has not only produced a cheaper system for Sony to manufacture, but for consumers to buy as well.”

Selected Comments from the post

“If people really wanted BC support then they should have brought the 60/80gb models, they carnt really say it was never available

This is quite clever really, SONY released the BC support in early models for the true fans, who would pay alot to get a PS3 (like me).
And then they release a cheaper model, with less features for the more mainstream, casual audience.

Good tactic SONY :D”

“That makes sense to me. I guess if you’re trying to reduce the price of your system in order to compete, I understand the reasoning. I’m just glad that I bought the 60 Gig with the Emotion Chip.”

“Many of us have been saying this was the case since BC was announced as removed. But with anything Sony these days 10 more people spout out how “the end is nigh!”.”

“As long as they offer both BC and non-BC systems, i dont see what ppl are crying about. If BC is that important to you then you can pay the normal price for it.. ppl who dont care for BC get to save $100.”

“I agree. If people don’t like it, they won’t buy it. I own a ton of PS2 games so I’m glad I went with the 60Gb model. Now my poor friend who doesn’t have a PS2 (I know, poor misguided soul) can get in on the PS3 action without spending $$$ on stuff he doesn’t need.”

+ nosedive51

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Destructoid Blog: Wishes and Warthogs: Launch Night Confessions

Blog + Destructoid + Halo 3
09.30.2007 at 9:25 am

Learn about MechaMonkey’s Halo 3 launch night adventures in this well written blog entry.

+ nosedive51

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David Jaffe Report

Comments + Blog
05.02.2007 at 10:15 am

Jaffe goes silent, goes off and then PSs.

The Going Silent

“But for the time being, I’m going to go dark. My stylings have upset some folks within the biz I care very much about and that I can not live with. For me, it’s always been silly, stupid fun…you know, giving what I get, talking like alot of folks on geeky message boards do, trash talking,etc. But I guess some folks have taken it to heart and that’s not cool for me. End of the day, even the folks who spew much venom my way, I probably would like very much in real life. As I’ve said before, we’re all geeks and if you can’t get along with a fellow geek, then what’s the point.”

The Going Off

TO THE LAME ASS WEBSITE THAT SHALL GO UNNAMED- Fuck you, guys. Go fuck yourselves. What other developer makes a fucking change to a game when a review (IGN’s in this case) has a good, valid point and is willing to open the fucking code up at the risk of more bugs to make the game better? Amazing.But hey, you guys are great, you guys rock. I hope Kotaku fucking puts your ass out of business, wanna be fucktards. And if you were actual journalists you would have read the motherfucking quote I posted on NEOGAF where I said because of the two bugs we needed to fix (not because I was afraid of the bargin bin) we had a window of opp. to fix the magnet problem. Assholes…total fucking assholes.

The PS

“oh and JUST to make it CLEAR since it doesn’t seem to be: I like GAMESPOT, have respect for them, always have. Hell I pay for the damn thing every year. I don’t agree with the review but I’ve always dug the folks over there and continue to do so. Hope they will like our next game alot more!”

The Comments

“Peace out man. Nice of you to have this blog in the first place so thanks. I cant wait to kick some ass on CAC.”

“good luck with CAC! i’ll be playing you online. keep making good games like you have proven yourself capable of in the past.”

“So much for a small stress-free game completed in 8-10 months. I don’t remember god of war stirring up this much controversy before it came out. the reality is no one WANTS to play a bad game, let alone review a bad game. so it’s not their problem, it’s yours.”

“I feel sorry for you guys - who really know your shit - when you end up at the mercy of a bunch of Gen-X idiots who do nothing but sit in an office and play games all day, every day. As time goes by, the more I realize I can barely trust *any* professional reviewers. The message boards are the judge nowadays, and VG mags/sites are just a place to get screen shots”

“Couldn’t blame you for taking a break. I’ll look forward to more entries in the future, especially those related to the industry and about any games you guys are working on.”

“I have never seen so many stupid people posting messages about a topic in my life. Most of the news websites you get when searching google news (kotaku, joystiq, etc) post 1 quote and then these stupid people come out of nowhere bashing stuff. joystiq only posts one review, kotaku claims you’re just whining, and then the stupid people go nuts. It’s ridiculous.

Thank you, Jaffe, for being one of the few developers that blogs and actually speaks your mind. The media seems to act like it should be the only one that tells fans what to think, and that any person that speaks their mind about something in this industry just gets berated for it. They are generally irresponsible because they are going for more hits for their site, which I understand, but it’s not exactly solid journalism (not to mention they all copy each other and seem to cite each other instead of the original source half the time and then leave their interpretations incomplete…but I digress). It’s hard to avoid but I hope it continues to be worth it for you.

I’ve found you to be quite intelligent and I think you admitted that your biggest problem is that you can’t shut your mind off (Bonus Round). I say just keep going with it and continue to speak your mind. That’s easy for me to say since I’m not the one getting bashed by idiots, but it just seems that fans are craving more of what you do from developers (except for stupid people telling you to shut up as if you speaking your mind somehow offends them and they can’t just ignore you).

The fact remains, though, that the game is getting good reviews despite what some sites would lead you to believe. I think in the end most of the attention will be positive after the game comes out. I’m glad the game will be even better due to some of the positive criticism received thus far (and still positive reviews given).

I look forward to your future projects.”

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The Fight Begins – The best fighting game?

1up + Fanboys + Blog
03.10.2007 at 7:46 am

1up’s James Mielke has posted a “fair” comparison of Virtua Fighter and Tekken.

“Thin-skinned Virtua Fighter fans bristle at the question, due mostly to Tekken’s decade-long dominance at home, when they can hardly believe how such a dialed-in-combo-heavy game could usurp their favorite, finessed game in terms of popularity in North America. On the flipside, whiny Tekken fanatics with an inferiority complex drilled into them by years of listening to haughty Virtua Fighter acolytes go on about how their fighter is infinitely deeper are almost always defensive to a fault”

“why wouldn’t you compared Virtua Fighter to Tekken? Espeically when Tekken has ripped off everything Sega AM2 has done for, oh, over a decade. Besides, they’re both 3D fighters with very much in common. See whiny Tekkenbot cry “Quit comparing this to virtua fighter! it plays like a totally different game.”

“The statement “It’s clearly evident that the reviewer has a rather large bias towards VF5″ is 100 percent accurate though, and not because there’s an AI drone found in Sega World South named “Milky Pai.” I have a rather large bias towards VF5 because it’s a better game. If someone put a bowl of piss in front of you next to a bowl of chicken noodle soup, I’d bet you’d be biased towards one too. It’s not rocket science that I love good games.”

We will refrain from posting our own “fair” judgment and simply ask the people what they think is the best fighter.

+ nosedive51

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